We would love for you to join us for a service. Its all good until (insert question or issue). As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll see link It's because Caleb was allegedly involved in multiple sexual relationships while on staff at daddy's church and he was, The Gospel Coalition now says not everyone can be a missionary. But here is the underlying issue: we in evangelical Christianity have become so good at eisogeting the scriptures (reading ourselves into the story) it has gotten to the point of narcissism, or as one preacher puts it, narcigesis., Dont believe me? Why should we bother with reading history or learning the truth? Personally I am not really all that interested in what the celebrites do as in endorsing, spinning events or behavior, etc. Has he asked them to forgive him? Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. This was a new song to me. sam wrote: . 15 And all that sat in the council, looking steadfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel. There seems to be a lot of the just finding out new information that everyone already knows about but which now changes everything affliction going around. He further states: A door was closed to who I was and a door was opened to who I became. I can't help but wonder whether Driscoll is talking about Paul or himself. I do hope he finds wholeness. But. (figuratively)) Later he show us all how it was done. I am not the judge of the hearts of men, but God has given us clues to the genuine presence of the Spirit, and I did not see it. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. Dont give into his deception. I also have recently spoken to another ministry leader involved in orphan care in Africa. So why would they view power and authority as central to the Gospel? Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. I mean this only works in some venues. They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. It is like anyone else that works hard to build something. Maybe six months from now, therell be another terrible story, and well know that the BSd us. Whats MDs explanation for the ritual shunnings? @ Nancy: i think you are addressing the biggest point actually. They are used to being believed no matter what they say. And these leaders present themselves as one thing but are deceiving people the entire time. Lydia on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:48 Even his outrageous speak was a game where he would then delete then repent then do againshampoo, rinse, repeat. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. As some are aware, the result of me pleading for a fair trial and arguing for due deliberation when changing bylaws was that Mark Driscoll, in an abusive and vile manner, threatened to destroy me and my ministry. Mind you I find Driscoll a tool in case I havent made that obvious. Just show-biz. In 2002, Agathos began as a ministry to rescue orphans in Africa during the peak of the out-of-control HIV/AIDS crisis. Thats how reasonable people see past the wicked. mark chose to step down not mark was removed. I think many. They want him to go away and they want to pretend he never existed for the sake of saving those church plants. Membership Covenants Are they involved in a joint venture? But Christians are under the New Covenant and the NT calls Christians to expose false teachers, not facilitate their cover ups. I find that when the Lord is using my mouth it is never vulgar or rude. No body guards. The church, according to the web site, was founded by three individuals, Mark Driscoll, Leif Moi and Mike Gunn. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. 11 The Lord told him, Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. These are the views of Steve Pokin, the News-Leader's columnist. If so you may be onto something. They are relinquishing 10-20% of their gross income. Mr. Petry was fired and ordered to be excommunicated and shunned for his opposing Driscolls move to consolidate power in the church and not have Biblical accountability before the elders. Is this similar to Radical Chic? Your comment is insightful and probably (for the AoG churches) right on the money. where is God in all this? Popularity and attention of the masses is not the right motive for serving the Lord. CCHD is extremely concerned about the health and well-being of all our community members and particularly those who attended the high-capacity event over the weekend. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. Until that flaw is named and claimed, it is reasonable to expect this kind of thing to happen again. People who are not religious, like me, are generally skeptical of religious institutions and their goals. . (the homes), just a few helpful links re: hillsong lol, http://www.news.com.au/national/hillsong-church-linked-to-abuse-claims/story-e6frfkp9-1111115815321. As I said, I am not a fan, but I can see the appeal of *his image,* from way back in the late 60s when posters of him 1st started appearing in college dorms. Not me, not you, and definitely not Mark Driscoll. Feel sorry for him instead as a burned out shell without compassion. Their statements to Karen Hinkley and everyone else may be complete cynical BS to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, or at least those of their pewsitters. At least at one point, women made up about 50% to 50% of most churches. If I were Satan I would give the Wormwood who came up with that system a big raise (or give away their books so theyd get a fat royalty check ; ). standing. So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. I will post about this. The best thing about it is one young woman had incredible courage. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. I suppose they could have been made up, although the accounts are supported by numerous descriptions of his pig like behavior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/, http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts, http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/07/hillsong-pastor-brian-houston-found-fathers-sex-abuse-confession-agonising, http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308, http://www.nancyalcorn.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=21, http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/, http://www.smh.com.au/national/hillsong-conference-shows-interview-with-controversial-us-pastor-mark-driscoll-20150630-gi1y6d.html, http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . We know that Driscoll should never have been a pastor: lack of formal qualifications, lack of maturity in the faith (too young, and never been a member of a church before he started his own), lack of maturity in general; Whats worse, total lack of good character. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. I think it is perfectly ok to say some people are toxic and avoid them for safety and mental health reasons. Plus Driscoll has to be way cheaper than Judah Smith or Carl Lentz, the current kings of radical chic. One of six. Its America and hes free to do that if he wishes, but its not proper, again, IMO. your post is so right LT, the whole post, and it really needs to be said again and again. I recently had coffee with a staunch Mark Driscoll supporter who has chided any criticism of Mark Driscoll and strongly challenged me for every apparent infraction of the last year, yet at the same time vigorously excused or defended every one of Driscolls mistakes. The supporter said some awful things about me and Agathos, particularly its misuse of funds. It shows also in our perception of ourselves and others when we still have areas of sin. Actually, they have as much as said that there is a good root (their doctrines/practices that accidentally produced some bad fruit. God,I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire? The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. But I did find this on the IRS website: A tax-exempt organization "may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.". . . Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. I do not for one minute believe they are suddenly open. Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? They will also show several very slickly produced commercials that feature smiling, giddy, laughing people all celebrating together. In his case, [Pauls] trust had to be earned, for obvious reasons. (Those wounded by MD) must forgive even if (MD) never admits wrong. I would not say Driscoll was a jerk. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? Just watch any random hour of TBN or Daystar. There is an old belief in bapto-evangelico circles that one of the criticisms that could for sure be said against certain other christian religious traditions is that they have priests and we do not, because they let the priests tell them what to do and influence them too much but in our way of doing things that does not happen. By and large, our local churches have been great examples of staying emotionally connected while protecting one another in this pandemicthis example does not do those congregations justice., I stg we're the dumbest country in world. I hope you encourage them to visit TWW. no., Thats the crux of the message, isnt it? I do hope that nobody is still saying these same things before they clean up their own act. Rob Smiths orphanage was totally defunded and left broke by Marks Hill, the Lord has taken up for those children, thankfully. A cynical, weary part of me says theyll never change. here is a bit of what i could type out as he was speaking, would love to see a transcript of it instead of having to listen to it though. i dont know what the answer is except to not get under the pastor leader concept ever. The authentic community I was referring to is the it term/concept in megas for 2015. Let's see. First, he begins by praying that he wants to make this time just about God and His people; yet he appears to take the stories of Stephen and Paul and apply them to his own circumstance at least that's how it sounded to me. I didnt feel pressured. Pouring what, exactly? Or alcoholics working in a bar. We saw the Dallas Morning News drop TVC story like it had Ebola germs on it despite knowing that parents were not being warned of a pedophile in their midst. The emails we received were similarly written. (remembering marks sermon about mark being king) jesus is seated and he stands up for stephen. His auto suggestive words were a dead give away! No special event meet and greet for high dollar donors. Until Mark repents of his Peasant Princess series along with its cartoon, and his Esther series, and his man stay-at-home man fail rants, the only sermon I will listen to of his and his supporters is John 3:16. You cant speak in tongues? Not that I think he failed to tell the truth. Did this evil plot involve the use of ninjas or leprechauns? It is identical to another certain entertainment industry where faking it means everything and in my opinion the industry representing the older profession is less offensive. I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. I was shocked and deeply saddened to see photos from the James River event over the weekend. If Mark Driscoll is going to wanna manipulate his 501(c)3 Church audience to give him a second chance, hes gonna havta try harder. And Jesus said He would send the Spirit of Truth, how we deal with situations in truth or deceitfulness is very telling. Some Pentecostals or Charismatics are okay with women being preachers or teachers. A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. It was never presented to me as something evil just something totally unnecessary and potentially dangerous. . I dont see how or why the Jerusalem church could have trusted him at that point, even though they might (or some of them might) have believed his vision and repentance were real. yeah, that pastors comment is kinda too scary for me to think about lol. You want to go all Colonel Jessup and rant about the truth? It is profoundly ironic that false teachers twist this particular scripture in an abusive way to their advantage just so that they can continue abusing. Saul did get out of Dodge for some years. The first time, it was shocking. You said again twice. 4 Ways of Discerning If You Have Left Jesus Behind. jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) i found it impossible to take advantage of people, i found that if i hurt someone even unententionally i couldnt sleep until i made it right. No coffee bar, etc. Lindell needs to state, specifically, what has been written about Driscoll that is a lie, because he is in effect calling all the victims and the 40 pastors/elders who filed formal charges against MD liars. But Peter rebuked him for his motives and told him to repent of his wickedness and told him he was gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity.. I believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. i havent seen any video or statement where he has actually apologized for anything except being mean when he should have been nicer in throwing people under the bus, shoulda offered them a pillow maybe so they didnt hit the ground so hard, but totally right in throwing them. But they dont work unless everybody actually sticks to them faithfully without exception, Collinssaid. What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. After witnessing Philips miracles, he tried to buy the power with his money. Here is Stephen facing public opposition. years ago when non denoms were pentecostal and full gospelit seemed they were trying to get back to the Jesus of the bible, the Living Jesus. or barred from the league for having too many technichal fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct and yelling at the referees for too many seasons. They didnt fail. While I appreciate that we were exposed to different theologians, it seemed the bent was toward Calvinism. The word "love" appears, Lindell said, because it would be unloving not to tell someone that when salvation is at stake. It seems foolish from a marketing and business view to alienate over half your customers.. Any of all of that may be true. "We all have desires that are warped as a result of our fallen nature: pride, selfishness, greed, anger, bitterness, unforgiveness, lust, envy, covetousness, chemical addiction," Lindell said. He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. Was Pastor Lindells statement just a slip or an attempt to rewrite history? He had simply accepted the rumors. The resistance is to Jesus. Eye Hath Not Seen, Nor Ear Heard What He hath prepared for those who love Him?. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . So grateful others are addressing these serious problems that plague Christendom. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by. I work with the Online Campus and part of that is getting to be involved in anything Online Campus related. Ditto Bent Meyer who opposed the consolidation of powerful. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. I dont want other people having that same regret. it sounds like you have a story of sorts. However, with such a massive back door spanning 15 years, I still think more exiles should be speaking up for the good of the current and future naives. Hmmm, trust the Spirit, and let them be killed like Ananias and Sapphira? I am still finding it hard to believe that Mr. Houston doesnt have access to Google, or some other search engine, in Australia. I want to know what is so bad about the church and why people dislike it. LT wrote: I will never forget the first time I was looking at an org chart of a mega while prepping to facilitate a planning session. In his sermon, Lindell cites several verses to make his No. thanks for sharing that peter, i agree with the article but havent read any of his other posts. Because you worked with multiple megas you have a very diverse perspective that is invaluable. Then I would take notice that there might be something to their repentance. Most people have more sunk into that cult than they do their homes. Ill be honest I dont see Christ in it. Brian Houston, pastor of Hillsong Church, issued a statement over the weekend, which drew considerable media attention. The mighty Kari Jobe is featured in some of the faking it videos they play in the classes. The text is not prescriptive. I agree that if the object is to fill seats and keep the money flowing in, then Driscoll and the others are doing a great job. I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. I sincerely hope Mark Driscoll's remarks are about this specific passage and not about himself. It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. Thats why places like TWW are imperative. Gr8 fun. Analogously, there are certain qualities that police forces screen for, to hopefully screen out bullies who want a uniform. stephen the shepherd is dying. pastors that use their position to wreck peoples lives arent expected to go to jail or show tears publicly and thats ok if its not warranted but it is very reasonable for people to see something, anything, that looks like actual remorse before they think its ok for them to go back to influencing the lives of people. I think Christians make a huge mistake when looking at patterns of spiritual abuse, deception and tyranny as whether or not they are criminal according to our laws. http://www.nancyalcorn.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=21 He urged Christians living in the city limits of Springfield to vote to repeal the law and to leave church with a Yes-On-Repeal yard sign.
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