Why that? These designs are great for getting around Kerbin quickly, but without going orbital. It may work with stock too, I just don't know. Clear editor. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. Sustained flight at over 20km requires at a minimum the Panther in Afterburning mode. She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. A jet engine from KSP 0.18 A jet engine is an air-breathing engine which uses onboard liquid fuel and combusts it with the oxygen drawn from the atmosphere. Your previous content has been restored. I've been finding it difficult to build a jet that can fly over 15km alt. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. The Inland Kerbal Space Center itself, being in effect the old Kerbal Space Center from 0.2. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. The stratospheric region, where temperature rises as altitude increases, spans the region between the altitudes of 10 km and 22 km. Its an approximation missing someelements. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. It only takes a minute to sign up. I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? That will unlock: When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Listen to this guy, don't go much farther above 15000 with high altitude engines. The ideal case for optimally efficient flight (which is what you want if you're trying to maximize cruise altitude) is when your wings are mounted to the body, pitched up just enough that when cruising in level flight, the body of the aircraft is pointing perfectly . Air Intake) and how fast your aircraft ultimately flies (air resistance/altitude)! Trying to do something without the right part is long and difficult path. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. - Insane TWR didn't help. Note that keeping the plane weight low is critical, only carry a very small amount of fuel. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. Are you using Stock or NEAR/FAR? Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). I did some testing and found that the turbojets get the best Isp around 5.2 km altitude, so I was thinking of flying at that altitude. Upload or insert images from URL. Challenges For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. The idea is to slow the plane to a stall above your landing spot the pop the parachute. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. The sweet spot for the upper atmo engines, I find, is between 10k and 12k. Either of the two speeds are to be avoided. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. Jets drop thrust at higher altitude and speed, but also drop . Typically, I watch my Apoapsis as I boost to the high altitude, and there's enough momentum to coast to the peak before completely running out of fuel. Also, Valley and Theomon fly to different corners of Kerbin and three mapping satellites are launched. Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Discord - https://discord.gg/HTvT7dZ Making Space Home Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKhqoFyoZ4d33MG7rS9KmDm_0:00 - Designing the Dudley Mk16:42 - Test Flights \u0026 Iterating13:45 - Col. Valley take the Seaplane to the Northern Ice Shelf19:30 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell Vb21:04 - Col. Theomon \u0026 Orlin Visit the Badlands in the Panther24:20 - Launch \u0026 Ejection of the Maxwell VI26:34 - Designing the SENTINEL 129:47 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell VIIFull List of Mods: Aviation Lights Chatterer Community Tech Tree Crew R\u0026R Croud Sourced Science Contract Configurator Contract Packs: Bases and Stations Reborn CommNet Relays Exploration Plus Field Research Kerbal Academy Tourism Plus Contracts Window+ Decoupler Shroud Easy Vessel Switch Kerbal Alarm Clock Kerbal Attachment System Kerbal Construction Time Kerbal Engineer Redux Kerbal Inventory System Kerbalism kOS KRASH Maneuver Node Evolved Navball Alignment Indicator Near Future Aeronautics Near Future Construction Near Future Electrical Near Future Propulsion Near Future Solar Near Future Spacecraft Persistent Rotation Rational Resources RCS Build Aid Continued Restock Restock+ SCANsat Scrapyard SMART Parts Stage Recovery Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux TAC Fuel Balancer Texture Replacer Trajectories Transfer Window Planner Universal Storage 2 Unkerballed Start Waypoint Manager So now to come to an end: from my experience I'd say for a medium sized aircraft it is best to fly between 12-13 km. I was hoping that the new intakes would give it the added altitude. That's all true, but just read the OP: hypersonic appears to be completely out of the question. I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. There are two factors to that: how thick the air is, how fast the ship is going. Privacy Policy. Here's my example of dealing with the situation. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. As you found out, it basically konks out at 15km. Evidence. Very cool. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. Even if the air is thin, you can still put out plenty of power if you are shoving enough in with raw speed. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. All rights reserved. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. You cannot paste images directly. Air Flow + max. Simply changing the intakes made it fly completely out of control and impossible to land. Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. So I'm pretty darn new to KSP, and my career has barely gotten started, and the jobs for crew observations seem to dominate Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Personally, I don't enjoy survey contracts on Kerbin. It's Kerbal Space Program v.22! I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). If too much air runs into the turbine, the excessive amount just flows out unused through side-vents (I think). At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. Then it is "In Space Low over Mun.". How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. The most obvious solution is try and optimize your craft for high altitude lift by giving it long wingspan like a U-2 spyplane. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. And it's stock, unfortunately. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. Ep. 600+ m/s) and low altitudes (e.g. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. I don't have that other stuff yet. even stranger is that the surface is textured. That will probably allow you to fly comfortably above 20-25km (or higher, depending on the overall mass of your aircraft). You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. Most SSTO space planes would be able to accomplish this easily. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. Upload or insert images from URL. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. Paste as plain text instead, Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. - Spamming airintakes didn't help. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. The other thing to bear in mind is that tuning the AoA (angle of attack) of your wings makes a difference. And how many km can I expect to get per v (as calculated by Engineer redux Kerbin atmospheric stats, I know this is weird with planes)? You can post now and register later. Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Display as a link instead, I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. Isn't that backwards snark? Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. Have you checked out the wiki yet? Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. This can make it a good alternative for when you want something that can be controllable and doesn't need excessive heat shielding, but still need to be able to go incredibly fast if necessary, at the expense of increased fuel consumption. Display as a link instead, 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Or try using SRBs instead. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. I checked the wiki before I wrote my question, it seems I overread this paragraph Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. Let me share what I know about jet engines, speed, and efficiency. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. - Insane lift to weight didn't help. Content titles and body; Content titles only This makes jets built using this engine considerably more maneuverable. Sideslip handling. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. Yes, you can get into that range with the high end stuff (whiplash engines and ram or shock cone air intakes). A full suite of flaps on the trailing edges of the main wings give it exceptional low-speed lift, and small hydroplane steps mounted on each side of the fuselage bottom help lift it out of the water (lowering water drag) during takeoff runs. Pasted as rich text. 20 votes, 21 comments. At 3500m, you have half the drag you'd have at the surface; at 7km, 1/4 the drag, at 10.5km, 1/8 the drag, etc. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. - Inside the atmosphere works the same way, except you need to be on an suborbital trajectory. Upload or insert images from URL. But since when do Kerbals wait for ideal conditions? Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. The longest flight got them down to a little more than half full. There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. Now lets combine these two indicators: The best performance your engine can achieve is when you have an optimal amount of Air Flow (obviously) but also the MAXIMUM amount of Air Intake. Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. . Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. Rationale: If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any AoA at all on the wings. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! Thanks for the help! As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. If you want to cover your aircraft with loads of intakes, I'm sure you could easily fly above 35km and reach 2000+ m/s velocity. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation.
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